Discussion:
Ice Bergs and Pretty Pictures
(too old to reply)
Pete Noel
2008-03-03 11:53:15 UTC
Permalink
Well I hate to bring up this old gem again but the International Ice
Patrol officially opened iceberg season last week and here is KNL
posting pictures of a potential Titanic. Lets face it the picture is
beautiful, looks so benign, and the odds of anything going wrong are
very very low but it does some one dies. Now it may be that the
perspective makes the kayak look much closer than it really is but
that is not the point. The point is that it encourages people to check
out icebergs up close and personal. Now before anyone responds and
says it is none of my business and that if someone wants to go close
to a berg it's their choice; let me say that as long as they know the
risk, I quire agree, but KNL should not show pictures of it. Also
before someone points out the recent whitewater pictures, let me say
that choosing to use your skill to run a rapid is one thing, the risk
is obvious and novice paddlers will not be running forty-foot drops.
Novices may however be enticed to go up a touch a berg on a calm day
not knowing the risk they are taking. Ask yourselves would we be
running pictures of people paddling on the ocean with no PFD. Sorry I
know everyone is sick of this iceberg stuff.
d***@hotmail.com
2008-03-03 12:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete Noel
Well I hate to bring up this old gem again but the International Ice
Patrol officially opened iceberg season last week and here is KNL
posting pictures of a potential Titanic. Lets face it the picture is
beautiful, looks so benign, and the odds of anything going wrong are
very very low but it does some one dies. Now it may be that the
perspective makes the kayak look much closer than it really is but
that is not the point. The point is that it encourages people to check
out icebergs up close and personal. Now before anyone responds and
says it is none of my business and that if someone wants to go close
to a berg it's their choice; let me say that as long as they know the
risk, I quire agree, but KNL should not show pictures of it. Also
before someone points out the recent whitewater pictures, let me say
that choosing to use your skill to run a rapid is one thing, the risk
is obvious and novice paddlers will not be running forty-foot drops.
Novices may however be enticed to go up a touch a berg on a calm day
not knowing the risk they are taking. Ask yourselves would we be
running pictures of people paddling on the ocean with no PFD. Sorry I
know everyone is sick of this iceberg stuff.
Your comments are right on the money Peter, the only thing I would
point out that the odds are significant, icebergs are constantly
melting and a roll over or breakup can occur at any time without any
warning.
b***@hotmail.com
2008-03-03 18:26:45 UTC
Permalink
I propose an immediate ban on all iceberg photos. That will keep
people away from icebergs for sure.
TonyLee
2008-03-03 23:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
I propose an immediate ban on all iceberg photos. That will keep
people away from icebergs for sure.
I disagree totally!! I see all kinds of things everyday that I see as
unsafe but thank god I do not see that as a reason to do them. I guess
I would be very afraid to turn on my TV if I was to agree. Also I do
believe that showing a picture of someone going over a 40 foot drop in
a WW kayak might very well make me think that its ok for me to go over
a 40 foot drop...its silly for me to suggest such a thing. Anyway I
have some pics for all to see but PLEASE do not think that this is
what you all should go and do!! Yes I know many are wearing helmets in
these pics but all should know this is not a safe practice and please
refrain from such activities!!

http://72.139.55.206:3500/andy/iceberg.htm
b***@hotmail.com
2008-03-03 23:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Shoot, thats the worst thing about these forums, the intended sarcasm
doesn't always come through :-)

My previous post was 100% sarcastic.

It seems iceberg photos are the #1 taboo for the KNL website and the
NL paddling community, and it always tends to ruffle a few feathers.

Tony, I think a few members will straight up have a heartattack at
their computers when they see those pictures. You could likely face
arrest for even possessing such material.

Watch any of the This is the Sea videos, and you will see people
taking risks, 3 paddlers with next to no ice experience paddled 800kms
in Antartica, around huge bergs, and ice packs.....with no PFD's on
for the entire trip. In the opening scene of This Is The Sea 1, there
are 3 women paddling in level 4 conditions with no pfd's on, and their
thermal gear wide open..... Paul Caffyn NEVER wears a pfd.....
Perhaps someone should write them a letter.

It seems any other activity with inherent risk is rarely/never
mentioned, but show one photo of someone near an iceberg and everyone
goes crazy. It blows my mind, but it certainly makes my work day a
little more entertaining.
TonyLee
2008-03-04 00:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Shoot, thats the worst thing about these forums, the intended sarcasm
doesn't always come through :-)
My previous post was 100% sarcastic.
It seems iceberg photos are the #1 taboo for the KNL website and the
NL paddling community, and it always tends to ruffle a few feathers.
Tony, I think a few members will straight up have a heartattack at
their computers when they see those pictures. You could likely face
arrest for even possessing such material.
Watch any of the This is the Sea videos, and you will see people
taking risks, 3 paddlers with next to no ice experience paddled 800kms
in Antartica, around huge bergs, and ice packs.....with no PFD's on
for the entire trip. In the opening scene of This Is The Sea 1, there
are 3 women paddling in level 4 conditions with no pfd's on, and their
thermal gear wide open..... Paul Caffyn NEVER wears a pfd.....
Perhaps someone should write them a letter.
It seems any other activity with inherent risk is rarely/never
mentioned, but show one photo of someone near an iceberg and everyone
goes crazy. It blows my mind, but it certainly makes my work day a
little more entertaining.
Hey Brian...I knew you were being sarcastic and I loved it!!
b***@yahoo.com
2008-03-05 22:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
I propose an immediate ban on all iceberg photos. That will keep
people away from icebergs for sure.
I don't think we can stop people from taking photos. I mean, anyone
can hide a cell-phone in their PFD pocket and then take photos. Hard
to enforce. But, perhaps we can ban icebergs. Maybe use the Coast
Guard to tow them away from the coast. Or, train the whales to push
the icebergs away. They're so big(the whales, that is) and reportedly
intelligent so they must be useful for something. And, if they can't
do that, perhaps we should just eat them.
b***@hotmail.com
2008-03-06 12:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Hahahaha,

I almost spit my coffee out when i read that. Funny stiff Brian :-)
David Carroll
2008-03-04 15:27:35 UTC
Permalink
The KNL board of directors has discussed the issue of posting iceberg
photos and other photos that depict risky kayaking activities, and we
have all come to a consensus regarding this issue.

The board has agreed with the views reflected in the following email
from one individual on the board:

"I disagree [with removing the photo from the contest and/or
website]. The arguements why have all been said before. If the photo
of
the iceberg should win, we can post it with a disclaimer and direct
people
to read the article on Icebergs & Kayaking under KNL Club News on the
welcome page. That's my 2 cents.

If a policy is going to be put in place, someone will need to define
"safe
kayaking practices". I disagree with Peter's comments regarding the
WW
photos. Novices will be just as influenced by those pictures as with
any
others (surfing, rock hopping, paddling under arches, paddling in
caves,
paddling around ice, paddling around whales, etc). There is risk
involved
the minute you sit your butt in that kayak. It's human nature to
explore
and be adventurous. I can tell you from my experience that the
majority of
people that participate in this type of risky activity are the
"experienced"
paddlers (and that doesn't make it any less risky). Many people get
into
paddling for those very reasons.

I think it's more our responsibility to find examples of "risky"
paddling
and point out the risks involved, not hide from it. People are going
to do
this stuff whether we post photos of it or not. I believe it's more
our
responsibility to educate paddlers on reducing risk. In fact, the
promotion
of safety awareness is part of our strategic goals.

Everyone has a different tolerance for risk. All we can do is
promote
safety awareness and hope that folks take it into consideration when
they
get on the water."

As a result, you can see that we have agreed to use these photos to
promote safety in a different way - not by censoring pictures of
potentially risky activity, but by explaining why these activities
have the risk that they do.
Pete Noel
2008-03-04 15:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Carroll
The KNL board of directors has discussed the issue of posting iceberg
photos and other photos that depict risky kayaking activities, and we
have all come to a consensus regarding this issue.
The board has agreed with the views reflected in the following email
"I disagree [with removing the photo from the contest and/or
website].  The arguements why have all been said before.  If the photo
of
the iceberg should win, we can post it with a disclaimer and direct
people
to read the article on Icebergs & Kayaking under KNL Club News on the
welcome page.  That's my 2 cents.
If a policy is going to be put in place, someone will need to define
"safe
kayaking practices".  I disagree with Peter's comments regarding the
WW
photos.  Novices will be just as influenced by those pictures as with
any
others (surfing, rock hopping, paddling under arches, paddling in
caves,
paddling around ice, paddling around whales, etc).  There is risk
involved
the minute you sit your butt in that kayak.  It's human nature to
explore
and be adventurous.  I can tell you from my experience that the
majority of
people that participate in this type of risky activity are the
"experienced"
paddlers (and that doesn't make it any less risky).  Many people get
into
paddling for those very reasons.
I think it's more our responsibility to find examples of "risky"
paddling
and point out the risks involved, not hide from it.  People are going
to do
this stuff whether we post photos of it or not.  I believe it's more
our
responsibility to educate paddlers on reducing risk.  In fact, the
promotion
of safety awareness is part of our strategic goals.
Everyone has a different tolerance for risk.  All we can do is
promote
safety awareness and hope that folks take it into consideration when
they
get on the water."
As a result, you can see that we have agreed to use these photos to
promote safety in a different way - not by censoring pictures of
potentially risky activity, but by explaining why these activities
have the risk that they do.
Dave
Good answer, my congratulations to the executive very well thought out
strategy. Pete
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